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Post by Mauro on Sept 22, 2003 17:18:45 GMT -5
Another liner, shader question ... when I look into tattoo machines, I get a choice of whether I'd want a liner or shader, doesn't that depend on how you setup the machine at the contact point with contact screw? Can't you just adjust the machine from a liner to a shader and vice versa? At dermagraphics.com I see machines that are up for sale for "x" amount of dollars, however I can order a liner or a shader, I don't understand ... ? By the way, thanks for the reply on the "black inks" issue, I'll purchase Pelikan.
-Mauro
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Post by Mark on Sept 28, 2003 3:32:48 GMT -5
You can speed up a shader fast enough to line with, but it's a hassle. But, actually there is a difference between liners and shaders. Liners: shorter front spring, (longer a-bar on some) less distance between the spring shelf and the end of the a-bar, lower uf capacitor, lighter armature bar (on some machines), and set-up to run at a higher hz while maintaining a decent duty cycle. Shaders: Longer front spring which would mean that the front binder post would have to come forward more (which is the other way around for liners), larger capacitor, heavier a-bar, machine tuned to run at lower hz while maintaining a decent duty cycle.
Plus a few things I'm sure I missed because I'm falling asleep, lol. Hope that helps some anyway.
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FlattLine
embryo
sory no site yet theyre on their way
Posts: 8
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Post by FlattLine on Sept 29, 2003 10:44:17 GMT -5
im a new artist aswell - it also depends on the coils a bit (8 wrap - 10 wrap) - i cant remember off hand but one heats up faster than the other - i think its the 8 wrap if i remember corectly - n e ways - right now due to lack of funds i just have one machine and im getting by just adjusting the contact screw - it however takes longer to do the tattoo, you have to adjust the contact screw change the tube the needle, overall it is a hassle. im ordering another next week, so i have one as a liner set up ready to go , same with the shader
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HAZROK
embryo
What, you want a new needle?
Posts: 20
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Post by HAZROK on Oct 4, 2003 1:33:09 GMT -5
ive found differant tasks require differant machines,i use 8 wrap coils with a mid wieght armature bar from "eikon"(www.eikondevice.com),i also use a 18g rear spring and a 16g front spring for threes and fives. i use 10 wraps with both front and rear springs in 16g, and a 47uf capaciter for packing coler with mags. i tend to keep my machine speed much lower for black n grey and soft powdery coler. it really comes down to keeping your machines in tune,a proper set up for what your doing at the time. experiment with differant combinations of spring stock and various armature bars until you get a result your happy with.
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Post by Mark on Oct 6, 2003 1:40:22 GMT -5
8 wrap coils don't heat up faster if your machine is running correctly, and you can do anything with 8's that you can do with 10's or 12's. What heats up a coils is the amount of current pulled through the wire, or resistance. All that can be fixed, or adjusted by using appropriate springs, and setting the air gap accordingly. Also you can use 18 gauge springs for every setup, or 16 gauge, it really doesn't matter. It just depends on how you cut your springs. For example: wide 16 gauge rear springs can put the same amount of tension on the a-bar as a narrower 18, or 20 gauge spring.
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piratedee
embryo
just moved to virginia from las vegas where i worked at sin city tattoos its a big change over here
Posts: 17
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Post by piratedee on Oct 29, 2003 10:48:47 GMT -5
ha ha hhaha one time (i wasnt paying atention) and i hooked my clip cord up backwards and that sure heated my coils up....i was doing a really cool color piece (so i was into it ...right) and befor i new it my shader had burned a blister into the back of my hand. im more observant now but yeah that'll sure heat m up...not that any of you would make the same mistake i was just reminded of the time heh
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Post by nst2 on Oct 29, 2003 11:38:41 GMT -5
tried setting up liner using multi meter, could only find one that measures hz (unable to find one that measures duty cycle). machine is ms micro dial. the readings it was showing were all over the place an i couldnt adjust it so it showed a continous reading. tried different machines but with same results. how did people set up machines before the use of multi meters? (serious question). surely there must be a general rule of thumb for machine set up?
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Nightliner
Still in diapers, but potty trained.
Guitar junky
Sign painter for 15 years, tattooing for around 8. Musician for 37 years.
Posts: 113
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Post by Nightliner on Oct 30, 2003 4:18:17 GMT -5
If the numbers are bouncing all over the place on your meter, then your front and rear springs are probably not set up right to work together properly. You may have too much rear tension in relation to the front spring. For example if your front spring is to soft you may be getting a kind of "double bounce" effect, and that would cause the meter to weird out. Also on most meters that register hz, there is a button that switchs it over to %, or duty cycle. But maybe yours doesn't have that, I don't know. The "old fashion way" was just to spring it up from having experience in what works for a given machine, and then setting the air gap for the amount of stroke you want, and rear tension, then it's all about hearing the bees buzzing, seeing the figure 8 on the nipple, and feel. And Knowing how caps affect machine performance, armature bar length and weight, etc....
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Nightliner
Still in diapers, but potty trained.
Guitar junky
Sign painter for 15 years, tattooing for around 8. Musician for 37 years.
Posts: 113
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Post by Nightliner on Oct 30, 2003 4:20:11 GMT -5
This thread may get moved into the machines section, so if you don't see it here in the next few days, that's where it will be.
Mark
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Post by bootyman3000 on Feb 20, 2004 14:14:51 GMT -5
the contact point is probably the least of the differences between liner and shader. it start at frame geometry and ends at contact, with a whole bunch of variable that change with every machine.
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Post by bootyman3000 on Feb 20, 2004 18:17:08 GMT -5
this is how that last post should have read. the contact point is probably the least of the differences between liners and shaders. it starts at frame geometry and ends at the contact, with a whole bunch of variables in between that change with every machine.
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Post by RichardToK on Jan 25, 2019 11:29:02 GMT -5
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Post by akuwaroka on May 21, 2019 15:09:30 GMT -5
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Post by uvusiqodv on May 21, 2019 17:28:23 GMT -5
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